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Fred Phipps's avatar

Thanks for this interesting article. The Thirlwall inquiry should be going in Lucy's favor but we live in a twisted world

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Karen Lichfield's avatar

Kathryn de berger was the occupational health person assigned to support lucy

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Cally Starforth's avatar

Thanks, yes the one who encouraged her to write down her feelings ... I got her name confused with the union rep ...

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Richard Gill's avatar

I think her surname is “de Beger”. It sounds like a Flemish name.

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antoinette.uiterdijk's avatar

Being familiar with this therapy, let me point out that here is a second step. One is supposed to shred, tear up, burn, or bury the "therapeutic" writings.

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Cally Starforth's avatar

do you think Lucy kept them for a reason?

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antoinette.uiterdijk's avatar

Many of Lucy's actions and interactions show her to be not good at reading people, situations, etc. Maybe growing up as an only child, sheltered, is one of the reasons for this limited social intelligence. She was rather naive in not realizing the many dangers life will throw at you. Some of us grow up rather late.

Maybe she intended to rewrite the scribblings in a more coherent way to discuss with her therapist. But why were these notes not protected under patient-provider confidentiality ? What was Chester PD thinking releasing them to a witch-hungry press ?

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Cally Starforth's avatar

Confidentiality wouldn't apply to stuff she wrote in her own time outside the session, but my argument on this has been from the start that these post it notes should not have been admissible under PACE section 76 (2) If, in any proceedings where the prosecution proposes to give in evidence a confession made by an accused person, it is represented to the court that the confession was or may have been obtained .... (b) in consequence of anything said or done which was likely, in the circumstances existing at the time, to render unreliable any confession which might be made by him in consequence thereof, ... then the court shall not allow the confession to be given in evidence ... I think her solicitor should have brought up that point on appeal application .....

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Sarah Yourston's avatar

thank you. much appreciated.

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antoinette.uiterdijk's avatar

If they wondered what was going on why didn't the hospital

- preserve placentas

- ask for more extensive post mortem

- call in a team of microbiologists, epidemiologists, etc. and have the whole ward, incl. equipment and people working/visiting, swiped/checked for possible pathogens

- look into what measure if protection doctors took when going to other wards and treating children/adults there, to the NICU

- forbid any doctor, nurse, visitor, to come in while unwell (and e.g. sneezing)

- make mandatory for people visiting to wear masks and use anti-biotic hand gels*

- up the number of senior doctors visiting from two rounds a week to two times daily

- train the NICU doctors in bringing in lines, tubes, etc. using dummies**

- ask a qualified, experienced, nurse from a non-NHS culture, e.g. the USA, to study all the case notes etc. re. the dead babies and give recommendations

I find no indication that any of this was done, except for more rounds.

* I spoke to a guy who worked for a while in a farm where they milked male turkeys (yes, for that). To go from one building to the next, he first had to shower, wash his hair, put on fresh clothes/shoes. If illness was suspected, two people were appointed to take care of the birds, no one else was allowed in or out. The difference of course being the rather large economic value of said birds.

** Ever watched F-1 racing ? Seen the cres exchanging the tires ? These guys train 7 days a week.

Apparently some junior doctors used their free moments to play pranks, calling nurses with a voice-changer and asking them to look for non-existent patients. Another issue not mentioned.

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Karen Wall's avatar

Thankyou. What an absolute miscarriage of justice

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Richard Gill's avatar

The identity of the doctor who may not be named was inadvertently revealed by the court of appeal in their published verdict on Baby K. Later they replaced it with a redacted version. Here is someone whose career has definitely continued on an upward path giving a talk at a paediatrics conference https://youtu.be/0qPg2xYBYsk

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Cally Starforth's avatar

Interesting

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